Last modified: 2014-01-03 16:01:35 UTC
after activating mobile main page for fa.wiki we came across with problem that some of our Namespace Alias characters are in Farsi (Persian) but none of mobile and tablet OS(IOS4,Android,windows Mobile,...) doesn't support farsi charcters and ZWNJ (Zero-width non-joiner) correctly also many of our PC users doesn't have standard Farsi keyboard so we have problem with ك and ي and ZWNJ would you please add to Namespace Alias list some alternatives that replace ی to ي and ک to ك and ZWNJ to space ? 1-for covering arbic ي and ك 1-1-wikipedia==>ويكيپديا 1-2-wikimedia==>ويكيمديا 1-3-user==>كاربر 1-4-Special==>ويژه 2-for covering ZWNJ (Zero-width non-joiner) 2-1-wikipedia==>ويكي پديا 2-2-wikimedia==>ويكي مديا
CC Niklas. Can't this be done in TranslateWiki?
translatewiki.net has no support for translators adding namespace aliases.
I found http://translatewiki.net/w/i.php?language=fa&module=namespace&title=Special%3AAdvancedTranslate but it doesn't have Wikipedia how can i add alternatives to them. also I had fault these are correct. 1-for covering arbic ي and ك 1-1-wikipedia==>ويكيپديا 1-2-Mediawiki==>مدياويكي 1-3-user==>كاربر 1-4-Special==>ويژه 2-for covering ZWNJ (Zero-width non-joiner) 2-1-wikipedia==>ويكي پديا
Names for "Wikipedia:" and "Portal:"and such have to be requested here. All other names are on TranslateWiki.
(In reply to comment #4) > Names for "Wikipedia:" and "Portal:"and such have to be requested here. All > other names are on TranslateWiki. It has error Your edit was not saved! Please fix following errors in translations: Namespace -2 can have only one translation. Replace the translation with a new one, and notify staff about the change. Namespace -1 can have only one translation. Replace the translation with a new one, and notify staff about the change. Namespace 2 can have only one translation. Replace the translation with a new one, and notify staff about the change. Namespace 3 can have only one translation. Replace the translation with a new one, and notify staff about the change. Namespace 8 can have only one translation. Replace the translation with a new one, and notify staff about the change. Namespace 9 can have only one translation. Replace the translation with a new one, and notify staff about the change.
Amir, any thoughts? Niklas says: Bounced back and forth, not clear who is expected to do what. I'd just add all aliases as WMF specific, but may make sense to 1) add them core or even 2) generate them automatically.
In search box If you can make a generator that can convert ی to ي and ک to ك and ZWNJ to space it is very useful for us unfortunately Google doesn't make this generate so we have two results for each searches that have ی or ZWNJ or ک In fa.wiki we have to make redirects for all of our articles that have ی or ک or ZWINJ in their title!
I am not sure if this should be fixed in the manner proposed here. For example, replacing ZWNJ with space may or may not be desirable, depending on the wiki. Replacing the correct persian ک with the wrong arabic-style ك on Persian wikis is totally unintuitive and I disagree with its implementation. I'm afraid this request is highly influenced by the needs of Persian Wikipedia; we should be cautious to implement solutions in the software itself, only if they are reasonably needed by all types of wikis. I suggest we mark this bug as deferred, and for now, implement JavaScript based solutions on Persian Wikipedia. Then we can assess the impact and plan better on whether it should be implemented in the software or not.
We are not replacing anything, but providing aliases which are easier to type and redirect to the correct one.
The last comment by Reza is in the opposite direction: it requests the search feature to be modified to replace the correct letter (used in the correct namespaces) with the wrong (but more frequently available on Arabic-friendly mobile devices) letter. As for what you suggest, I'm still a little skeptic, because it promotes the use of incorrect (i.e. non-standard) letters in the Wiki. Right now, if you type [[كاربر:Huji]] (which starts with non-standard ك character), you get a redlink, and then you will learn to use the standard letter. If those aliases are added, the link will become a blue link, and the rate of compliance to the standards of Persian characters will decrease. This is why, in my belief, the solution to a mobile-only problem should only affect mobile users. I think it is Wikimedia Mobile extension that has to be modified, not the MediaWiki itself.
In fa.wiki amirbot made 30,000 redirect pages for redirecting Arabic alphabet to Farsi alphabet so if any one search with Arabic alphabet he doesn't have any problem to find articles but the only problem is we can not make redirect for Alias name.so making these aliases doesn't decrease the rate of compliance to the standards of Persian characters! also we have to make redirect every month for our titles that they have ی and ک and ZWNJ Another point, I suggested this bug only for Fa.wiki not Arabic! we have many PC users that they are not wiki editor and the need to read our article and they don't have Persian keyboard or they don't use ZWNJ .what should we do for them? (In reply to comment #10) > The last comment by Reza is in the opposite direction: it requests the search > feature to be modified to replace the correct letter (used in the correct > namespaces) with the wrong (but more frequently available on Arabic-friendly > mobile devices) letter. > > As for what you suggest, I'm still a little skeptic, because it promotes the > use of incorrect (i.e. non-standard) letters in the Wiki. Right now, if you > type [[كاربر:Huji]] (which starts with non-standard ك character), you get a > redlink, and then you will learn to use the standard letter. If those aliases > are added, the link will become a blue link, and the rate of compliance to the > standards of Persian characters will decrease. > > This is why, in my belief, the solution to a mobile-only problem should only > affect mobile users. I think it is Wikimedia Mobile extension that has to be > modified, not the MediaWiki itself.
Again, you are focused only on Persian Wikipedia. It is the only wiki on which Amirobot has made those changes. Most of the other Persian installations of MediaWiki don't have those redirects created (and those redirects are only limited to pages in the main namespace, while the current bug falls to the realm of other namespaces mostly). As for PC and Mobile users, I still believe the best start point is having a JS implemented in Common.js of Wikipedia which redirects the users automatically if they use non-Standard letters in their search keywords.
What is the state of this?
It has drifted to discussion about page names instead of namespaces.
There are two separate issues being discussed here. One has nothing to do with *this* bug (deserves its own thread), the other is exactly what was asked in the beginning (ref. the title of the bug). After all this discussion, I think it is reasonable to create aliases for the default namespaces using all permutations of frequently used non-standard characters, as follows: Current namespace name for User namespace: کاربر (it uses the standard letter ک) Aliases: كاربر (it uses non standard letter ك) Current namespace name for Wikipedia namespace: ویکیپدیا (it uses the standard letters ک and ی) Aliases: (all permutations using one or more non-standard letters) ويکيپديا (uses non-standard ي) ویكیپدیا (uses non-standard ك) ويكيپديا (uses non-standard ك and ي) If you show me the relevant part of the config file (a link to noc.wikimedia.org ?) I can attach and send the whole code for all namespaces that need aliases. Once these aliases are implemented, this bug can be closed. Discussion about whether or not the search feature should also be modified to support non-standard characters is beyond the scope of this bug.
would you please do it?
Updated product and component to be wiki specific. I do not see consensus here. Please discuss the proposed changes on-wiki, add a link to consensus when repoting an issueborbrequesting a change, and ensure that each issue contains exactly one (1) clear request or bug report. I'm closing this for now as won't fix. Please reopen when reporting requirements are met.
Hi we had consensus in fa.wiki http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D9%88%DB%8C%DA%A9%DB%8C%E2%80%8C%D9%BE%D8%AF%DB%8C%D8%A7:%D9%86%D8%B8%D8%B1%D8%AE%D9%88%D8%A7%D9%87%DB%8C_%D8%A8%D8%B1%D8%A7%DB%8C_%D8%A7%DB%8C%D8%AC%D8%A7%D8%AF_%D8%AA%D8%BA%DB%8C%DB%8C%D8%B1%D9%85%D8%B3%DB%8C%D8%B1_%D8%A8%D9%87_%D9%81%D8%B6%D8%A7%D9%87%D8%A7%DB%8C_%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%85 please add *Alias existed redirect one *ویکی پدیا ---> ویکیپدیا *ويكي پديا ---> ویکیپدیا *ويکيپديا ---> ویکیپدیا *كاربر ---> کاربر *بحث كاربر ---> بحث کاربر *بحث ویکی پدیا ---> بحث ویکیپدیا *بحث ويکي پديا ---> بحث ویکیپدیا *بحث ويکيپديا ---> بحث ویکیپدیا
<ns id="4" xml:space="preserve">ویکی پدیا</ns> <ns id="4" xml:space="preserve">ويكي پديا</ns> <ns id="4" xml:space="preserve">ويکيپديا</ns> <ns id="2" xml:space="preserve">كاربر</ns> <ns id="3" xml:space="preserve">بحث كاربر</ns> <ns id="5" xml:space="preserve">بحث ویکی پدیا</ns> <ns id="5" xml:space="preserve">بحث ويکي پديا</ns> <ns id="5" xml:space="preserve">بحث ويکيپديا</ns>
(In reply to comment #15) > After all this discussion, I think it is reasonable to create aliases for the > default namespaces using all permutations of frequently used non-standard > characters, as follows [...] I've not checked if each of those namespaces exists and was discussed or not, but we have way worse aliases around the Wikimedia projects and while possibly overkill the request makes sense and has support -> +shell.
Change 73604 had a related patch set uploaded by TTO: (bug 30743) add namespace aliases for fawiki https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/73604
@Reza: Can you please have a look at https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/73604/1/wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php and see if it makes sense? From my own experience I know that non-Latin characters are sometimes wrongly copied/pasted, so a review from a native speaker would be helpful.
Thanks :) as a native speaker https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/#/c/73604/1/wmf-config/InitialiseSettings.php is correct and confirmed
It is correct, but not complete. For NS_PROJCT and NS_PROJCT_TALK, variations should be added that contain ك instead of ک in the word ویکی. I can give you the list here, if it is not easy for you to iterate among those letters.
@Huji line 2557, 2558,2561 has ك
Agreed. However, when there are two possibilities for Yeh, and two possibilities for Keh, and there are two possibilities for space (full space versus ZWNJ), each word at hand will need six forms, one of which is the correct form (that is what the wiki uses) and the other five being aliases. Right now, we only have 3 (out of 5) of those aliases for each of these words defined. I hope I didn't cause more confusion by doing the math! I'll just give you a list of all words once I get to my other computer. I will make it clear which ones were added by 73604 and which ones are still due.
I have to admit, my math was wrong. There are eight possibilities, including the correct dictation! There are two possibilities for Yeh, and two possibilities for Keh, and two possibilities for space. 2*2*2 = 8 The Persian translation for "Wikipedia" has three instances of Yeh (same as "i" in the English word). I believe it is safe to assume that each user will use the same form of Yeh on all three occurences. Therefore, these are all the possibilities for "Wikipedia": ویکیپدیا ویکی پدیا ویكیپدیا ویكی پدیا ويکيپديا ويکي پديا ويكيپديا ويكي پديا Out of those, the first row is the correct one (included in wgMetaNamespace further up in the same file); rows number 2, 8, 5 (in that order) are added by the patch #73604 linked above. Rows 3, 4, 6 and 7 are to be added to the patch. Same applies to "Wikipedia Talk" aliases: بحث ویکیپدیا بحث ویکی پدیا بحث ویكیپدیا بحث ویكی پدیا بحث ويکيپديا بحث ويکي پديا بحث ويكيپديا بحث ويكي پديا Again, rows 3, 4, 6 and 7 are to be added to the patch.
@Huji We speak about keyboard when user uses has arabic keyboard he/she has ي (arabic yeh) and ك (farsi keh) at the same time and it is very strang that user types ي (arabic yeh) and use ک (farsi keh) at the same time because in arabic keyboard he should use shift for typing ک. we have 3 kind of keyboards 1-Standard farsi > possible vaiations : 1-1-with Zwnj with standard yeh and keh (with is used in fa.wiki) 1-2-with out Zwnj with standard yeh and keh 2-tablet and smart phone keyboard 2-1-arabic yeh and keh without ZWNJ 2-1-farsi yeh and key without ZWNJ (like case 1-2) 3-arabic keyboard 3-1-arabic yeh and keh with ZWNJ 3-2-arabic yeh and keh without ZWNJ (like case 2-1) totally we should have 4 variation for possible situations. now fa.wikipedia uses one of the so we have should have 3 others like Comment 19
(In reply to comment #28) > @Huji > We speak about keyboard when user uses has arabic keyboard he/she has ي > (arabic > yeh) and ك (farsi keh) at the same time and it is very strang that user I mean yeh) and ك (arabic keh) at the same time and it is very strang that user > types ي
Alright, I guess it makes sense to assume that people only use the characters offered to them by the keyboard layout, therefore reducing the possibilities to the four you mentioned. If we ever notice that people are using any of the other four possibilities, we can just reopen this bug and ask for them to be added too. I think this bug is ready to be closed as fixed.
Change 73604 merged by jenkins-bot: (bug 30743) add namespace aliases for fawiki https://gerrit.wikimedia.org/r/73604
Marking as RESOLVED FIXED per comment 30.
