Last modified: 2012-08-21 04:14:21 UTC
Currently <http://shop.wikimedia.org> has the following HTML output: --- <title>The Wikimedia Shop | The Wikipedia Shop</title> --- This is simply wrong. It is not "The Wikipedia Shop" and calling it such is confusing and misleading. I asked about this a few weeks ago and I was told it was a search engine optimization effort. This is bullshit. Wikimedia and Wikipedia have absolutely no problem with regard to search engine ranking.
In the meantime, this got changed to the following: --- <title>The Wikimedia and Wikipedia shop</title> --- ... which doesn't really change the state of this bug. Using the 'and' operator can suggest that Wikipedia is not a part of [the] Wikimedia [movement], which isn't /really/ true.
Yeah, I apologize for not saying something here earlier. For now, while I understand that not everyone agrees with me, this is a won't fix. The title change (to and) was a suggestion from the talk page that I liked but I know it doesn't really answer the real question here. For now I'm going to leave it like this though for SEO and understanding reasons like I said on the talk page. There is no doubt that Wikipedia is part of the Wikimedia movement and on the shop I think that's quite clear. It is the Wikimedia Shop and I hope to have even more non Wikipedia merchandise on there (right now I have pins, buttons and stickers for the projects but they deserve more then that). However the fact remains that if someone is searching on Google and sees just "The Wikimedia Shop" they are much less likely to understand what it is then if they see Wikipedia included in there as well. Hopefully when they get to the shop they will notice the branding and that Wikipedia is part of Wikimedia and that will help with the constant issue we have in that regard. I'm hopeful that in the future this won't be the case and I'm always going to be open to other suggestions and options. However for now this isn't changing.
(In reply to comment #2) > Yeah, I apologize for not saying something here earlier. For now, while I > understand that not everyone agrees with me, this is a won't fix. The title > change (to and) was a suggestion from the talk page that I liked but I know it > doesn't really answer the real question here. For now I'm going to leave it > like this though for SEO and understanding reasons like I said on the talk > page. Well, no. I'm going to re-open this bug. The title was wrong and continues to be wrong. There isn't any good reason for it to be wrong, technical or otherwise. That said, I can't force the title to be changed, so we'll leave this bug open until you find sense or your successor comes along. If we mark this as "wontfix", I'm afraid I'll forget about the issue altogether. If it's left open, presumably I'll stumble across it again someday.
(In reply to comment #3) > Well, no. I'm going to re-open this bug. The title was wrong and continues to > be wrong. I'm confused. We are talking about the shop from the organisation that supports Wikipedia, for items (amongst others) branded as Wikipedia, and with official provision to use the trademarks related to "Wikipedia", right? > There isn't any good reason for it to be wrong, technical or > otherwise. Well, sure. Except the reasons James gave. :-) > That said, I can't force the title to be changed, so we'll leave this bug open > until you find sense or your successor comes along. If we mark this as > "wontfix", I'm afraid I'll forget about the issue altogether. If it's left > open, presumably I'll stumble across it again someday. Bugzilla is not your personal "I can't be bothered to keep a to-do list" system, Max. :-)
(In reply to comment #4) > (In reply to comment #3) >> Well, no. I'm going to re-open this bug. The title was wrong and continues to >> be wrong. > > I'm confused. We are talking about the shop from the organisation that supports > Wikipedia, for items (amongst others) branded as Wikipedia, and with official > provision to use the trademarks related to "Wikipedia", right? The title was "The Wikimedia Shop | The Wikipedia Shop". It's now "The Wikimedia and Wikipedia Shop". Both of these titles are wrong. You know they're wrong because the shop is called "The Wikimedia Shop" ("the" being one of those awkward somewhat optional words). It says so in two or three different places on the page. In the header ("Wikimedia Shop") and in the intro ("Welcome to The Wikimedia Shop"), and probably in some other places. I suppose if you want to quibble about the definition of the word "wrong," you can. It seems rather childish, though. The shop is called the Wikimedia Shop. There's no good reason the title should state otherwise. >> There isn't any good reason for it to be wrong, technical or >> otherwise. > > Well, sure. Except the reasons James gave. :-) The reasons James gave? "Search engine optimization"? User confusion? As pointed out on this bug, the new title has potentially more confusion than simply calling the shop by its name. >> That said, I can't force the title to be changed, so we'll leave this bug open >> until you find sense or your successor comes along. If we mark this as >> "wontfix", I'm afraid I'll forget about the issue altogether. If it's left >> open, presumably I'll stumble across it again someday. > > Bugzilla is not your personal "I can't be bothered to keep a to-do list" > system, Max. :-) James, you'll need to behave yourself. I have many to-do lists, of course. Bugzilla is a place to track technical problems, such as the page title of a particular Wikimedia service being wrong. I've just looked again and the title at <http://shop.wikimedia.org/> continues to be wrong, so this bug will remain open.
Closing again. When the staffer in charge of the software says "we're not fixing this", we're not fixing this.
Copy of the e-mail I received from Oliver regarding this bug: > Max, I'm re-closing this bug. You've now been told by three (count it; three) staffers that this change isn't going to happen. In your recent op-ed you noted that "Wikimedians are naturally skeptical, insolent, and stubborn" (in an early draft, at least). Speaking *as* a long-time wikimedian, your actions here demonstrate that you fit into that category quite nicely. When the primary person with the power to change something has told you they won't, that's normally a pretty good sign that the horse you're beating has turned to compost before your eyes. This isn't the first time you've warred to keep something open on the grounds of "I refuse to take no for an answer". Consider it the last. If I see you doing this any more without a really good justification, I'm going to talk to whoever I need to talk to to have your bugzilla rights taken away. Because this is getting ridiculous. Learn to accept that sometimes there are things you cannot change. > Please don't make silly threats. This bug is perfectly valid. I have no idea why you or James Forrester have decided to step in here or how either of you feel it's appropriate to close a valid bug without even attempting to offer new arguments for doing so. As I said to James F. in a subsequent chat on IRC, another possible resolution to this bug would be to rename the shop from "The Wikimedia Shop" to "The Wikimedia and Wikipedia Shop" (making the current title accurate), but that would create other bugs. It's genuinely irksome to a number of Wikimedians when constructions such as "Wiki[mp]edia" are used. For similar reasons, the revised shop title ("The Wikimedia and Wikipedia Shop") is equally irksome. The branding confusion between Wikipedia and Wikimedia extends far outside of this bug, but that doesn't change matters here. We wouldn't ever consider renaming Meta-Wiki's main page title to "Meta, a Wikimedia and Wikipedia project coordination wiki", of course. And there has been similar outcry in the past for calling Sue Gardner the Executive Director of Wikipedia (or was it the Wikipedia Foundation? I don't remember). I'm not sure why either of you are making such a large deal out of the bug staying open. This seems to be more about personal issues you may have with me than about the technical merits of the bug.
Technically this is a bug - the title ain't right according to the content. But that also doesn't mean there's only one solution, or that once the initial proposal is rejected, that the matter ought to necessarily be closed. Now if titling it simply 'The Wikimedia Shop' is out of the question, another way about that would indeed be calling the thing the 'Wikimedia and Wikipedia Shop' everywhere, including the content itself, but wouldn't a better solution be, if you're trying to keep the branding present, to just make the title something more descriptive in general? Say, 'The Wikimedia Shop - the official shop of Wikipedia and its sister projects' or some such?
(In reply to comment #8) > Technically this is a bug - the title ain't right according to the content. But > that also doesn't mean there's only one solution, or that once the initial > proposal is rejected, that the matter ought to necessarily be closed. > > Now if titling it simply 'The Wikimedia Shop' is out of the question, another > way about that would indeed be calling the thing the 'Wikimedia and Wikipedia > Shop' everywhere, including the content itself, but wouldn't a better solution > be, if you're trying to keep the branding present, to just make the title > something more descriptive in general? Say, 'The Wikimedia Shop - the official > shop of Wikipedia and its sister projects' or some such? I still don't actually agree 'it isn't right' which is the biggest crux of that but as I said in my original close I'm always open to other options. I'm happy with something like what you suggested. We want to try and keep it below 70 characters if we can (it gets cut off in search results) but we could do that by getting rid of the 'The' 's . Such as "Wikimedia Shop - Official shop of Wikipedia and its sister projects"
(In reply to comment #9) > [...] > but as I said in my original close I'm always open to other options. I'm happy > with something like what you suggested. We want to try and keep it below 70 > characters if we can (it gets cut off in search results) but we could do that > by getting rid of the 'The' 's . Such as "Wikimedia Shop - Official shop of > Wikipedia and its sister projects" >>> len("The Wikimedia Shop: Merchandise for Wikipedia and its sister projects") 69 Maybe something along those lines? Fran McCrory suggested changing the title to "Ye Olde Wiki-Media Shoppe", but I think that was mostly a joke. ;-)
Yeah, not the old fashioned yet ;) Works for me, changed on shop.
