Last modified: 2014-04-22 02:57:19 UTC
Hi, everyone. Yesterday, we had a meetup here in Manila, and I discussed with two Tagalog Wikipedia editors (including a fellow bureaucrat) about the creation of a new interface language for Tagalog in a bid to resolve long-standing differences over how the interface should be translated. We agreed on a compromise solution, where we would accommodate Taglish (code-switched Tagalog and English) as a new interface language called "Tagalog (informal)" for the Tagalog-language projects, similar to how there is an interface language for formal German (de-formal). We decided that this new interface language will become the default interface language for all anonymous and new users on the Tagalog Wikipedia, in order to attract new editors who may be confused by the formal language used for the current Tagalog interface. The current interface will be opt-in for those who want to use the interface as it currently is, and users will have the ability to select their preferred language using the Universal Language Selector which will only have Tagalog, Tagalog (informal) and English as the options. All other languages may still be selected through the preferences. If this is possible to do, I'd love to see this come to fruition, and I hope to hear from all of you soon. Thanks! :)
Is this asking for: 1) Creating a new interface language, tl-informal, in TranslateWiki.net 2) Creating a new interface language, tl-informal, in MW core 3) Creating a new interface language, tl-informal, in production 4) Creating a new content language in MW core, adding to tlwiki as a variant 5) Creating a new content language in MW core, adding to a new wiki (tl-inf-wiki)? I think this is 1, 2, 3 and 4 but not 5. Note that adding variants to a wiki is do-able but makes for a sucky experience in both editing and creating wikitext, and means that tlwiki wouldn't be possible as a release target for VisualEditor for at least some time whilst we wait for building out support in VisualEditor and Parsoid.
(In reply to comment #1) > Is this asking for: > > 1) Creating a new interface language, tl-informal, in TranslateWiki.net > 2) Creating a new interface language, tl-informal, in MW core > 3) Creating a new interface language, tl-informal, in production Just these first three. For now, we're very undecided on pursuing the fourth option, as we have not yet agreed on having Taglish content on the Tagalog Wikipedia. For now, we only agreed on having a new interface language, and we will get to the issue of content languages when we get there.
As a veteran editor in the Tagalog Wikipedia, I disagree with this. I think it's redundant and I am for only one interface language for Tagalog. I suggest that this should be discussed first with more editors.
(In reply to Joseph Ballesteros from comment #3) > As a veteran editor in the Tagalog Wikipedia, I disagree with this. I think > it's redundant and I am for only one interface language for Tagalog. I > suggest that this should be discussed first with more editors. It is not redundant when language issues are as divisive as they are on the Tagalog Wikipedia. Short of forcing everyone to abide by one standard (which will not happen, given persistent conflicts between purists, moderates and progressives/universalists) or creating two different Wikipedias for Tagalog and Filipino, this is the best solution that can be conceived. (Also, I posted a discussion on this on both the Tagalog Wikipedia Facebook group and the Kapihan months ago.)
(In reply to Josh Lim from comment #4) > (In reply to Joseph Ballesteros from comment #3) > > As a veteran editor in the Tagalog Wikipedia, I disagree with this. I think > > it's redundant and I am for only one interface language for Tagalog. I > > suggest that this should be discussed first with more editors. > > It is not redundant when language issues are as divisive as they are on the > Tagalog Wikipedia. Short of forcing everyone to abide by one standard > (which will not happen, given persistent conflicts between purists, > moderates and progressives/universalists) or creating two different > Wikipedias for Tagalog and Filipino, this is the best solution that can be > conceived. > > (Also, I posted a discussion on this on both the Tagalog Wikipedia Facebook > group and the Kapihan months ago.) We cannot accommodate everyone. We have to always look at what the majority of readers of the Tagalog Wikimedia projects understand. They don't understand what is kasaputan, lambat-lambat and what have you. I realize the need to translate the interface after conducting editing workshops across the Philippines. Most people in the workshops don't understand what is "lumagda." They understand the term "login" instead. I bet that even some purists will laugh at the phrase "Wala ka pa bang kuwenta?" Do you even realize that in normal conversation the phrase may be translated as "Are you still a useless person?" instead of "Don't have an account"? I bet also that those so called purists also speak unpurely in normal conversation. I believe it's still redundant and will add another burden to a handful of volunteers just to accommodate the principles of a few people. Another thing, it's not necessarily informal or Taglish when you use borrowed foreign words in a phrase or sentence. There are words (especially technical terms) that are really untranslatable. Forcing the translation will result to lots of misinterpretation just like with the term "kuwenta." Thus, tl-informal is a misnomer and will just add to the confusion. I haven't seen a discussion in the WP:KAPE (or the Kapihan in the Tagalog Wikipedia) about this. You are aware that I don't have a Facebook account and if you have posted that in Facebook, I haven't read it. Instead of Facebook (where not all people who are involved in the projects are there), I recommend that you start a new section at WP:KAPE and discuss this further. Please don't reply me here.
One more thing, why is it the localization project of the Mozilla Tagalog interface has no problems with retaining the technical terms untranslatable? We can follow their example.
This likely should be discussed *within* the community in order to reach consensus and support, however http://tl.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:KAPE seems pretty inactive. Is there a better place?
